@Kuranyem: I am also a programmer, though my experiences differ quite a bit from this account. :) It is true that some people will never bother giving due credit, but those are the same sort of people who get a lot of their assets from ripped commercial graphics and spriter's resource. Oh, well. OGA is for people who want their assets to be completely without risk of intellectual property troubles.
Regarding LPC being a big cumbersome beast: agreed. and the work outlined in this thread is definitely integral to rectifying a lot of the issues you've brought up.
Admittedly, I missed the point about 100+ credit file being a barrier for use. I apologize, it was directed at no one here. My reaction was mostly in response to some separate experiences I had with users (none of whom have posted here) that were willing to add all the LPC art to their game, but unwilling to give credit to the artists who deserve it... because it was 'just too much work.' THAT is the disrespect I was getting at, though none of that happened here, so my reaction was misdirected.
I can see that what we're talking about instead is people who would like to use the LPC art, but choose not to because it is too much work to navigate attribution. I think there is a good chance this project can solve that problem. having a single file you can drop into your game files to cover all attribution in one move will help with that barrier quite a bit, I think. Not a counterpoint, just reiterating that we are on the same page. :)
..."Should you really use CSV? And not an open-source alternative, or easy to open with another open-source editor"...
??? I... what? CSV is definitely open source. It's also the most easy-to-open-in-another-editor spreadsheet format in existence. It's literally just a series of Comma Separated Values in plaintext. Even if all you have is notepad, you can still open up a CSV and get a decent simulacrum of a spreadsheet. Did you have some other format in mind?
I wouldn't say there is little interest in OGA art, though. Like you said, that is subjective. OGA gets hundreds of unique visitors and hundreds of downloads a day.
1) Yes, finding the good stuff here is tedious. I wish I had the resources to solve that problem. I guess that is what comes with "free", a lot of the time. Not a lot of funding to make improvements. :/
2) True. OGA is a bit like a flea market: There's a lot of junk, but if you browse for a bit you're sure to find a bargain. I originally came to OGA and found fantastic resources for making several games. I love it all! Easiest way to find the good stuff is in the "all time favorites" category, but I'm sure everyone here knows that already. :P
3) hmm.. this has not been my experience. There are definitely more people coming here to download assets than there are artists here sharing assets. The downloaders just tend not to say much usually. Kenney's stuff is great, which I'm sure is why he's the #1 ranked submitter on OGA. Which leads back into interest: Kenney posts nearly all of his assets here even though he has his own website. This is because OGA gets a lot of traffic, and those visitors find Kenney when they ordinarily would never have found his site. OGA is great for providing fixer-uppers; most of the art needs some work before it can fit into a game, but the price is right! It's also great for linking developers with artists. Like you said, you'll usually need custom work done, because no two games are the same. A lot of developers commission artists they've met here. I guess my point is, OGA isn't meant to be a high end art boutique with game-ready graphics behind a paywall. It's a free bargain bin to get you started. It's not in competition with Asset Jesus or the Unity store, it's a partner.
I understand what you're saying. I know you aren't speaking ill of these artists. I find the LPC assets immensely helpful and enjoyable myself. Since I benefit so much from them, the cost/benefit ratio is in my favor, but I can see how it would not be if the usefulness to you is not as high. The goal is to reduce the cost (attribution hindrance) and increase benefit (general usefulness of LPC). I actually am interested to know what details you want to share. Though, if you're saying you don't feel the LPC art is very useful for your particular needs, I think that may be off-topic here. Would you be willing to share more on a separate forum thread? or discuss via PM?
That is actually an issue that has gone unaddressed for a while. The attribution was not properly tracked for several iterations of those LPC generators. However, by remarkable coincidence, Bluecarrot (along with Castelonia and others) have just recently began efforts to address the very problem you've come across. See the this post for more information: https://opengameart.org/forumtopic/lpc-spritesheetcharacter-generator-at...
Oh, well. Glad you've found it! :) I hope you'll give it a go. I'm glad you've been adding the animated preview to all your spritesheets, but I have to be honest, the gifs generated by the Chasys Draw IES Artist program don't fully do them justice.
Ah, well I'm not sure I did fix it. I'm guessing that same method would still fail. I went to the submission page and clicked "add to collection" on the left pane.
I was able to add it just fine. What are the steps you're using to try to add it. I mean, you can't add it now that it's already added, but let me know if you need me to remove it so you can test it again.
I fully support this effort. I am willing to contribute as well, but - as bluecarrot hinted at - this is one of those projects where more help might mean more work. As they say in my line of work: "what one programmer can accomplish in one month, TWO programmers can accomplish in just two months." Any help given should be at the direction of bluecarrot, to be sure the work is consistent and effective.
I do not agree with the notion that the full scope of attribution for all the LPC works is just too unwieldy. If the credits.csv ultimately has 2000 rows, that is a lot, sure, but hardly 100 pages long. Any developer must necessarily add at least one line of code to his/her project per sprite sheet or LPC asset they want to use. Adding thousands of lines of code that reference and import the artwork is no big deal, but adding (at most) the same amount of text to a credit file for all that free stuff is just too hard? I don't buy it.
I realize that isn't really the point of what was being said. It is true that the attribution for all the LPC content is complicated and cumbersome, but having insufficient or incomplete credit is no alternative. From what I understand from the suggestions above, the idea is to have:
A comprehensive spreadsheet with the full attribution: filename, title, author, license, url... That can be either dropped in whole to a project that uses any one or more (or all!) LPC assets... OR easily paired down by the developer as they do a simple check-all-that-apply, including rows for any LPC assets they're using, excluding rows for assets they are not using.
Code added to the popular LPC character generators that automatically build a credits file. As components are added to (or removed from) the character, the generator adds (or removes) the corresponding attribution text to a running list.
I realize it may be difficult for I or others to effectively directly contribute to this heroic effort, so I'm thinking of posting a bounty for its progress. What do you think of $0.10 for every row (asset) completed on that .CSV? I know that isn't much, but hopefully it will help take the sting off of how monotonous this task can be at times. I'll have to come up with a few limits to make sure y'all don't make me homeless, but is it worth considering? Would it help keep motivation strong?
EDIT: I was ninja'd by bluecarrot16. XD
@Kuranyem: I am also a programmer, though my experiences differ quite a bit from this account. :) It is true that some people will never bother giving due credit, but those are the same sort of people who get a lot of their assets from ripped commercial graphics and spriter's resource. Oh, well. OGA is for people who want their assets to be completely without risk of intellectual property troubles.
Regarding LPC being a big cumbersome beast: agreed. and the work outlined in this thread is definitely integral to rectifying a lot of the issues you've brought up.
Admittedly, I missed the point about 100+ credit file being a barrier for use. I apologize, it was directed at no one here. My reaction was mostly in response to some separate experiences I had with users (none of whom have posted here) that were willing to add all the LPC art to their game, but unwilling to give credit to the artists who deserve it... because it was 'just too much work.' THAT is the disrespect I was getting at, though none of that happened here, so my reaction was misdirected.
I can see that what we're talking about instead is people who would like to use the LPC art, but choose not to because it is too much work to navigate attribution. I think there is a good chance this project can solve that problem. having a single file you can drop into your game files to cover all attribution in one move will help with that barrier quite a bit, I think. Not a counterpoint, just reiterating that we are on the same page. :)
??? I... what? CSV is definitely open source. It's also the most easy-to-open-in-another-editor spreadsheet format in existence. It's literally just a series of Comma Separated Values in plaintext. Even if all you have is notepad, you can still open up a CSV and get a decent simulacrum of a spreadsheet. Did you have some other format in mind?
I wouldn't say there is little interest in OGA art, though. Like you said, that is subjective. OGA gets hundreds of unique visitors and hundreds of downloads a day.
1) Yes, finding the good stuff here is tedious. I wish I had the resources to solve that problem. I guess that is what comes with "free", a lot of the time. Not a lot of funding to make improvements. :/
2) True. OGA is a bit like a flea market: There's a lot of junk, but if you browse for a bit you're sure to find a bargain. I originally came to OGA and found fantastic resources for making several games. I love it all! Easiest way to find the good stuff is in the "all time favorites" category, but I'm sure everyone here knows that already. :P
3) hmm.. this has not been my experience. There are definitely more people coming here to download assets than there are artists here sharing assets. The downloaders just tend not to say much usually. Kenney's stuff is great, which I'm sure is why he's the #1 ranked submitter on OGA. Which leads back into interest: Kenney posts nearly all of his assets here even though he has his own website. This is because OGA gets a lot of traffic, and those visitors find Kenney when they ordinarily would never have found his site. OGA is great for providing fixer-uppers; most of the art needs some work before it can fit into a game, but the price is right! It's also great for linking developers with artists. Like you said, you'll usually need custom work done, because no two games are the same. A lot of developers commission artists they've met here. I guess my point is, OGA isn't meant to be a high end art boutique with game-ready graphics behind a paywall. It's a free bargain bin to get you started. It's not in competition with Asset Jesus or the Unity store, it's a partner.
I understand what you're saying. I know you aren't speaking ill of these artists. I find the LPC assets immensely helpful and enjoyable myself. Since I benefit so much from them, the cost/benefit ratio is in my favor, but I can see how it would not be if the usefulness to you is not as high. The goal is to reduce the cost (attribution hindrance) and increase benefit (general usefulness of LPC). I actually am interested to know what details you want to share. Though, if you're saying you don't feel the LPC art is very useful for your particular needs, I think that may be off-topic here. Would you be willing to share more on a separate forum thread? or discuss via PM?
That is actually an issue that has gone unaddressed for a while. The attribution was not properly tracked for several iterations of those LPC generators. However, by remarkable coincidence, Bluecarrot (along with Castelonia and others) have just recently began efforts to address the very problem you've come across. See the this post for more information: https://opengameart.org/forumtopic/lpc-spritesheetcharacter-generator-at...
Did it not alert you when I posted this comment? https://opengameart.org/comment/88683#comment-88683
Oh, well. Glad you've found it! :) I hope you'll give it a go. I'm glad you've been adding the animated preview to all your spritesheets, but I have to be honest, the gifs generated by the Chasys Draw IES Artist program don't fully do them justice.
Ah, well I'm not sure I did fix it. I'm guessing that same method would still fail. I went to the submission page and clicked "add to collection" on the left pane.
Haha! A finished model of an unfinished object.
That could work. Please pm me when you plan on using it so I can make sure it isn't getting too close to hindering site performance.
Could be. What steps wet you taking to add it?
I was able to add it just fine. What are the steps you're using to try to add it. I mean, you can't add it now that it's already added, but let me know if you need me to remove it so you can test it again.
I love this collection. Your efforts keeping this up-to-date have not gone unappreciated.
I fully support this effort. I am willing to contribute as well, but - as bluecarrot hinted at - this is one of those projects where more help might mean more work. As they say in my line of work: "what one programmer can accomplish in one month, TWO programmers can accomplish in just two months." Any help given should be at the direction of bluecarrot, to be sure the work is consistent and effective.
I do not agree with the notion that the full scope of attribution for all the LPC works is just too unwieldy. If the credits.csv ultimately has 2000 rows, that is a lot, sure, but hardly 100 pages long. Any developer must necessarily add at least one line of code to his/her project per sprite sheet or LPC asset they want to use. Adding thousands of lines of code that reference and import the artwork is no big deal, but adding (at most) the same amount of text to a credit file for all that free stuff is just too hard? I don't buy it.
I realize that isn't really the point of what was being said. It is true that the attribution for all the LPC content is complicated and cumbersome, but having insufficient or incomplete credit is no alternative. From what I understand from the suggestions above, the idea is to have:
I realize it may be difficult for I or others to effectively directly contribute to this heroic effort, so I'm thinking of posting a bounty for its progress. What do you think of $0.10 for every row (asset) completed on that .CSV? I know that isn't much, but hopefully it will help take the sting off of how monotonous this task can be at times. I'll have to come up with a few limits to make sure y'all don't make me homeless, but is it worth considering? Would it help keep motivation strong?
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