@Spring, its not really fear as such that i worry, its not really a worry. as a novice that has improved over the last year or so, my thinking has changed. It was about getting the opinions, getting tips for improvement and so on. i still need to improve but im in a much better place now and the work i do i want it to be useable and be presented in a way that is useable, purposeful art as apose to maybe its useable. every effort i make i hope it to be considered for use for its own merit, and at the same time, be considered for use due to another asset i have created so its important to me that i set off on the right foot. On some occasions edits will be needed to cater for a variation, either for game genre or something else by the developer, so when searching for art wherever and you come across my art then the first impresion is quite important. i would rather people say "Chasersgaming has got some useful stuff" and not "bloodyhell, its all the same stuff pretty much,err" and hearing about the 'asset flipping' just made me concious about it. I think i made that mistake with the Tile sets i have made recently,by making different coloured variations, but that was all they were, and it didnt sit right with me, not to mention uploading each one seperately just felt it was over the top and more time, time i could of spent doing other stuff with regards to assets. So again i was just concious that it was over the top and unesscary and might be deemed as just silly.:)
thanks for your nice comment :)
@medicinestorm @LDAsh now i see what your saying about the 'asset flip' thing, i get it now thanks for clearing that up, that makes me feel a lot better about it. I understand about doing for me when in doubt, and its not an easy job to set up assets in a way that would suit everyone as the requirments would be different for the reasons LDAsh mentions, I'm not going to please everybody, and i shouldnt worry about doing that, do what works for me is best, but if i can strike a nice balance then thats good. I get the idea of updating a submission instead of multiple posts/uploads of something that caters to a particular need, i think thats where i struggle to make it fit, when i talk about 'usefulness' because i find it hard to place something in a particular place in terms of genre because of how im doing it, the artwork is not intended for one use, well it is but a different version of it, like side scrolling, orthogrphic and isometric. i dont want to make a limited art where only a platformer style art is the only one, having the art 'fit' the isometric and orthographic is what im trying to do to make it versitile, and make those versions available in the one sprite. If someone want to make a side scroller, orthometric or isometric styled game, or a hidden adventure, match 3 etc, then i would like make those available on whatever sprite im working on, but catergorising or index them is a bit of a pain, as its one of the hardest things i find to do, and dont want a feed of what look like a bit overwhelming of what could be considered nonsense and maybe get a poo rep for it. :)
Your comments have been really helpful, i think i have a better heading now, and they will defo help me going forward. It still maybe a bit hit and miss, but hopefully in the end it will all make sense and be worthwhile. :)
@medicinestorm, you pretty much describe what it is ive been trying to say in like 4 sentences, hahahahahah. :)
i dont like the idea of isolating completely the newbs (as i am one) because of what can be learned and is learnt, but at the same time i can understand the cons of having a saturated site of endless nothingness, and pros getting the ump with all the newbs type stuff. just wanting to crack on without waving through the endless fog searching for fellow pros.. Ranking, points sytem could be the answer to put a 'spectrum' in place, maybe controled by other pros a like, think of how a 'Masons' work (secret hand shakes) perhaps only reputable pros who knows each other can vote(black ball) them into the elite, where it opens up sections of the website, where the newbs cant get to, but still have the rest for the rest, thaqt have yet to prove themselves.
Ok heres an idea, but i really havent had a chance to hash it out because sadly (your like this) im working on my project.;)
the aim here is to help a community come together to forfill the requests of members seeking programmers,code, and art more effectively with incentives which hopefully drives more teams to work together, project ideas come to life more quickly, without everyone getting peed off by time wasters and wasted efforts on a project.
So, think of it for now as a Itch.io, a market place or even a directory, whichever you think fits best after you read this as an examples, where projects are uploaded, assets, code, etc. i havent figured out a layout, not important at this stage.
When signing up to this Website you can select which account you would like to have, which could be:
COMMUNITY: where you are just a member that is interested in the things on the site, but maybe has no real interest in art or programming itself, but has a few game ideas now and then. as just a 'community' member you can post threads etc, but you can also SUBMIT a game idea for other members to discuss or even the 'Elite' teams.(which i will get to in a moment). to actually work on if the community rate is worthy. ;) these members can also collect/earn XP points (il get to this in a moment too). they have a profile page to, with all sorts of activity stuff, but not sure that is important at this stage.
ART/CODE CONTRIBUTER: Someone who has no art/code abilitiys but has coding/art experiance. the profile page will list things like what they have experiance working in, like, unity,html,python etc. kind of like a advert/portfolio for them i guess. They honestly set a status of their workflow, such as amatueur, hobbiest, pro which can be set as a emoji/symbol like @Kickbrit suggests, a coffee cup. this tells other members that are looking for other developers/artists to work with whether that member has the credentials or time to work with them on a project they are making.(seeking out potiential time wasters) they also have the option to submit game ideas like the community has, but they can also REQUEST CODE or ASSETS for thier project for 'tendor' with incentive of 'CP points' being awarded. Now these requests are forfilled by other ART/CODE CONTRIBUTER accounts and the requester can receive many 'offers'. it will be down to the requester to choose which code/asset he choses to use, but also could decide on what the community feels too should they create activity on his game page.(like a like button or something) now the time taken by the request forfiller will not be wasted as there efforts will remain on the requesters game page to show what was offered incase some comes along looking for something simular, also the requester should compensate with a 'CP points' contribution, and again not all is wasted because as a ART/CONTRIBUTION account you can sell assets on your page like you would on a market place, either for money or 'CP Points' as a new form of inhouse currency.
The idea of the 'CP Points' currency is so everyone can have at least a chance to get the code or art they need for there project if the community or devs/artists decide that there project is not worthy to do via an 'tendor' system or its just missed. I.e Pro dev wants a pro artist but cant afford it with a normal cash flow, but if that artist provides his art for sale with CP Points as well as cash then theres that chance, it would also work the other way around, artist needing dev, this could strecth to tutorship as well i suppose, but what ever evolves from that maybe. obvouisly this is not a mandatory thing its just another way for dev to get art, art to get dev that could be reachable.
ELITIST: (i wasnt sure of this but ive worked it in) OK Elitist accounts are for devs artists that have a focus on targeting projects that have been asked for by the community only, and not there own projects. this account is not designed for a creating code or assets for sale but has potential to help themselves to maybe an infinate 'CP points' to get the project the community has asked for finished in a more desireble quicker method. Fulltime coders an artists and not part time hobiests. This account is not stricltly open to anyone, maybe a certain ranking or xp points gets you there, and other Coders,artists that can 'Vouch' for there work rate and skills, and or adminstrative node that says you can be an elitist.
now because the communitys can vote on gaems as well as earn xp points, they can maybe exchange there xp points for cp points and donate to what ever artists/developers that want to help to get there requests forfilled, or help them buy assets/code from other members.
yeah, this is pretty well been hashed together, but maybe you can get something from it.
i get what your saying but its not something that interests me, i would consider myself a virgin indie, but not a time waster. i wish you well with that idea though. there must be like a forum thread on the software you use that has a restricted section, where the elite meet with the elites and doesnt allow newbies or inexperianced devs comment, gamemaker had one, surely the others do to for the very reason you seek matey?
If they have no examples of their work, or cannot show examples of their work then is that not enough to suggest they are not serious, or a 'time waster'?
Also what if they are serious but they just dont have the funds they need to make their project a reality? Coz the code or art they need is out of reach due to financial strains, or no one wanting to do the work for nothing,(especially the pros) thus leading to no portfolio for either.
you right their are good reasons for not tell all about your project idea for fear of someone stealing it and what not so it makes it a lot harder to generate the interest from particular parties. Game programming is one thing, game art is another, both of which cannot exist without the ideas of someone, which is the foundation of how its starts. Maybe we're looking at this wrong.
you can't really weedle them out, so as it is examples are the only real way to make a determination whether or not it's worth working with someone in a team, having something that does separate or isolates can maybe cause a confliction of interest as they could well form of the community that has the say with what's voted on.
Oh yes, I see that now, argh, it's coz I'm scrolling up and down, up and down, trying to read it all and gather my thoughts on what I've read, trouble is I can't remember who's saying what, haha.:)
i know one thing, my thoughts are against the idea of public voting on a game idea. But that's just me.
Actually since reading those posts, my idea is not really something your looking for at all, so there's no point me waving in. It's seems like a 'greenlight' system for game development is what your sort of after. Kickstarter or indiegogo could provide something like this, instead of funding, your looking for just votes.pitching the game idea to a public vote, and it's requirements for a team are 'tendered' too. This game sounds good, +1 vote, this game looks popular and I can do what they are asking programming wise, +1 vote and an offer for coding, my art style would suit what there looking for for this game, +1 vote and an offer for art. Each tendered offers are then selected by the voters, and your good to go.:)
@kicknbrit not sure I covered all of it, was really just my summary of things.:)
I have an idea and a concept with regards to some of the comments here, obviously my idea won't cover all and may go in a different direction, but it's an idea non the less. I will draw something up and write about it and PM you guys for you to have a look at it and consider/take what you want from it, evolve, make it better etc. I think we have taken up this members post enough.
i don't have any experiance really with any set up or code with anything other than gamemaker, and that is novice at best,same as my artwork.but if I can help with anything should anything come to pass I'd try and be supportive as I can be.:)
@Spring, its not really fear as such that i worry, its not really a worry. as a novice that has improved over the last year or so, my thinking has changed. It was about getting the opinions, getting tips for improvement and so on. i still need to improve but im in a much better place now and the work i do i want it to be useable and be presented in a way that is useable, purposeful art as apose to maybe its useable. every effort i make i hope it to be considered for use for its own merit, and at the same time, be considered for use due to another asset i have created so its important to me that i set off on the right foot. On some occasions edits will be needed to cater for a variation, either for game genre or something else by the developer, so when searching for art wherever and you come across my art then the first impresion is quite important. i would rather people say "Chasersgaming has got some useful stuff" and not "bloodyhell, its all the same stuff pretty much,err" and hearing about the 'asset flipping' just made me concious about it. I think i made that mistake with the Tile sets i have made recently,by making different coloured variations, but that was all they were, and it didnt sit right with me, not to mention uploading each one seperately just felt it was over the top and more time, time i could of spent doing other stuff with regards to assets. So again i was just concious that it was over the top and unesscary and might be deemed as just silly.:)
thanks for your nice comment :)
@medicinestorm @LDAsh now i see what your saying about the 'asset flip' thing, i get it now thanks for clearing that up, that makes me feel a lot better about it. I understand about doing for me when in doubt, and its not an easy job to set up assets in a way that would suit everyone as the requirments would be different for the reasons LDAsh mentions, I'm not going to please everybody, and i shouldnt worry about doing that, do what works for me is best, but if i can strike a nice balance then thats good. I get the idea of updating a submission instead of multiple posts/uploads of something that caters to a particular need, i think thats where i struggle to make it fit, when i talk about 'usefulness' because i find it hard to place something in a particular place in terms of genre because of how im doing it, the artwork is not intended for one use, well it is but a different version of it, like side scrolling, orthogrphic and isometric. i dont want to make a limited art where only a platformer style art is the only one, having the art 'fit' the isometric and orthographic is what im trying to do to make it versitile, and make those versions available in the one sprite. If someone want to make a side scroller, orthometric or isometric styled game, or a hidden adventure, match 3 etc, then i would like make those available on whatever sprite im working on, but catergorising or index them is a bit of a pain, as its one of the hardest things i find to do, and dont want a feed of what look like a bit overwhelming of what could be considered nonsense and maybe get a poo rep for it. :)
Your comments have been really helpful, i think i have a better heading now, and they will defo help me going forward. It still maybe a bit hit and miss, but hopefully in the end it will all make sense and be worthwhile. :)
@medicinestorm, you pretty much describe what it is ive been trying to say in like 4 sentences, hahahahahah. :)
i dont like the idea of isolating completely the newbs (as i am one) because of what can be learned and is learnt, but at the same time i can understand the cons of having a saturated site of endless nothingness, and pros getting the ump with all the newbs type stuff. just wanting to crack on without waving through the endless fog searching for fellow pros.. Ranking, points sytem could be the answer to put a 'spectrum' in place, maybe controled by other pros a like, think of how a 'Masons' work (secret hand shakes) perhaps only reputable pros who knows each other can vote(black ball) them into the elite, where it opens up sections of the website, where the newbs cant get to, but still have the rest for the rest, thaqt have yet to prove themselves.
Ok heres an idea, but i really havent had a chance to hash it out because sadly (your like this) im working on my project.;)
the aim here is to help a community come together to forfill the requests of members seeking programmers,code, and art more effectively with incentives which hopefully drives more teams to work together, project ideas come to life more quickly, without everyone getting peed off by time wasters and wasted efforts on a project.
So, think of it for now as a Itch.io, a market place or even a directory, whichever you think fits best after you read this as an examples, where projects are uploaded, assets, code, etc. i havent figured out a layout, not important at this stage.
When signing up to this Website you can select which account you would like to have, which could be:
COMMUNITY: where you are just a member that is interested in the things on the site, but maybe has no real interest in art or programming itself, but has a few game ideas now and then. as just a 'community' member you can post threads etc, but you can also SUBMIT a game idea for other members to discuss or even the 'Elite' teams.(which i will get to in a moment). to actually work on if the community rate is worthy. ;) these members can also collect/earn XP points (il get to this in a moment too). they have a profile page to, with all sorts of activity stuff, but not sure that is important at this stage.
ART/CODE CONTRIBUTER: Someone who has no art/code abilitiys but has coding/art experiance. the profile page will list things like what they have experiance working in, like, unity,html,python etc. kind of like a advert/portfolio for them i guess. They honestly set a status of their workflow, such as amatueur, hobbiest, pro which can be set as a emoji/symbol like @Kickbrit suggests, a coffee cup. this tells other members that are looking for other developers/artists to work with whether that member has the credentials or time to work with them on a project they are making.(seeking out potiential time wasters) they also have the option to submit game ideas like the community has, but they can also REQUEST CODE or ASSETS for thier project for 'tendor' with incentive of 'CP points' being awarded. Now these requests are forfilled by other ART/CODE CONTRIBUTER accounts and the requester can receive many 'offers'. it will be down to the requester to choose which code/asset he choses to use, but also could decide on what the community feels too should they create activity on his game page.(like a like button or something) now the time taken by the request forfiller will not be wasted as there efforts will remain on the requesters game page to show what was offered incase some comes along looking for something simular, also the requester should compensate with a 'CP points' contribution, and again not all is wasted because as a ART/CONTRIBUTION account you can sell assets on your page like you would on a market place, either for money or 'CP Points' as a new form of inhouse currency.
The idea of the 'CP Points' currency is so everyone can have at least a chance to get the code or art they need for there project if the community or devs/artists decide that there project is not worthy to do via an 'tendor' system or its just missed. I.e Pro dev wants a pro artist but cant afford it with a normal cash flow, but if that artist provides his art for sale with CP Points as well as cash then theres that chance, it would also work the other way around, artist needing dev, this could strecth to tutorship as well i suppose, but what ever evolves from that maybe. obvouisly this is not a mandatory thing its just another way for dev to get art, art to get dev that could be reachable.
ELITIST: (i wasnt sure of this but ive worked it in) OK Elitist accounts are for devs artists that have a focus on targeting projects that have been asked for by the community only, and not there own projects. this account is not designed for a creating code or assets for sale but has potential to help themselves to maybe an infinate 'CP points' to get the project the community has asked for finished in a more desireble quicker method. Fulltime coders an artists and not part time hobiests. This account is not stricltly open to anyone, maybe a certain ranking or xp points gets you there, and other Coders,artists that can 'Vouch' for there work rate and skills, and or adminstrative node that says you can be an elitist.
now because the communitys can vote on gaems as well as earn xp points, they can maybe exchange there xp points for cp points and donate to what ever artists/developers that want to help to get there requests forfilled, or help them buy assets/code from other members.
yeah, this is pretty well been hashed together, but maybe you can get something from it.
even pro indies were virgin indies once.:)
i get what your saying but its not something that interests me, i would consider myself a virgin indie, but not a time waster. i wish you well with that idea though. there must be like a forum thread on the software you use that has a restricted section, where the elite meet with the elites and doesnt allow newbies or inexperianced devs comment, gamemaker had one, surely the others do to for the very reason you seek matey?
If they have no examples of their work, or cannot show examples of their work then is that not enough to suggest they are not serious, or a 'time waster'?
Also what if they are serious but they just dont have the funds they need to make their project a reality? Coz the code or art they need is out of reach due to financial strains, or no one wanting to do the work for nothing,(especially the pros) thus leading to no portfolio for either.
you right their are good reasons for not tell all about your project idea for fear of someone stealing it and what not so it makes it a lot harder to generate the interest from particular parties. Game programming is one thing, game art is another, both of which cannot exist without the ideas of someone, which is the foundation of how its starts. Maybe we're looking at this wrong.
you can't really weedle them out, so as it is examples are the only real way to make a determination whether or not it's worth working with someone in a team, having something that does separate or isolates can maybe cause a confliction of interest as they could well form of the community that has the say with what's voted on.
I suppose it's not, we just have a different approach to how and what games get made by a team effort.
define 'time waster' and 'messer' what is it that you think fits into a criteria like that?
Oh yes, I see that now, argh, it's coz I'm scrolling up and down, up and down, trying to read it all and gather my thoughts on what I've read, trouble is I can't remember who's saying what, haha.:)
i know one thing, my thoughts are against the idea of public voting on a game idea. But that's just me.
Actually since reading those posts, my idea is not really something your looking for at all, so there's no point me waving in. It's seems like a 'greenlight' system for game development is what your sort of after. Kickstarter or indiegogo could provide something like this, instead of funding, your looking for just votes.pitching the game idea to a public vote, and it's requirements for a team are 'tendered' too. This game sounds good, +1 vote, this game looks popular and I can do what they are asking programming wise, +1 vote and an offer for coding, my art style would suit what there looking for for this game, +1 vote and an offer for art. Each tendered offers are then selected by the voters, and your good to go.:)
@kicknbrit not sure I covered all of it, was really just my summary of things.:)
I have an idea and a concept with regards to some of the comments here, obviously my idea won't cover all and may go in a different direction, but it's an idea non the less. I will draw something up and write about it and PM you guys for you to have a look at it and consider/take what you want from it, evolve, make it better etc. I think we have taken up this members post enough.
i don't have any experiance really with any set up or code with anything other than gamemaker, and that is novice at best,same as my artwork.but if I can help with anything should anything come to pass I'd try and be supportive as I can be.:)
:)
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