@Spring: I would say if the assets are such that it makes sense to split them up into separate submissions, then go ahead and do it that way. But don't split them up soley for the goal of padding out your 'assets used' numbers ;)
Sunday, July 1, 2018 - 08:18
Ok, deliverying the promised updates!
Added some night time and jungle tiles.
I also had a go at adding some 'semi-solid' platform tiles.
These only appear in the night and jungle previews but I actually made ones for each of the environments.
I like how the semi-solid platform bits came out but I must admit they kind of kill that 'low tile count economy' I was talking about. Also not 100% convinced they mix perfectly with the very blocky grid look of the other tiles, but I made them so I figured they were worth including.
@chasersgaming: I think the new rule about pre-written code sounds good. Honestly, unless you want to start getting hyper persrciptive about what tools people can use, I think this is the only approach that makes sense. I suppose this is going to sound cranky-old-man, but really, the idea that anything done with Unity or GameMaker was 'made from scratch' is preposterous.
Actually, what I was planning for the procedural world generation code would have fallen right within this rule. I have some code that would be useful for the game, but I wasn't going to start putting all the pieces together until the Jam started. The code wasn't written specifically for the game, so it's not like I was trying start coding for the game beforehand.
The prototype by constrast is more problematic as that literally was coding the game before the competition even if it didn't amount to much more than some basic platformering code.
@VinnNo.0: 9 jams! you've been busy! As far as code orginization goes, I definitely know the feeling when it comes to looking back at old projects. Fortunately, over the years I've learned to write pretty atomized code, although that's actually what's causing the issue here. I have a bunch of well generic code that would be great to reuse for the game. If it was more customized or tweaked out for my existing projects then it wouldn't be worth the trouble of re-using.
@all: Don't worry, Medusa Must Die! will live someday, just not for this Jam. At the end of the day, I think this is one of those things where just asking the question revealed the answer. 'So I got this game idea I've been developing for years, it'll use a bunch of code I already wrote, plus I made a prototype already, that'll be cool for this 4 week game jam, right?' Yeah, maybe not.
But it's no problem, I already have a bunch of other ideas for the Jam. Still narrowing the list down this morning, I'll post to the Hype thread when I decide on one.
@chasersgaming: Oh not disgruntled, sorry if I came off that way. I'd say I'm opinionated on the subject but not upset about it. A little bummed to be putting my Medusa Must Die! concept back on the shelf but I've actually already come up with several other ideas to go with instead. Going to sleep on it and pick one in the morning. And yes, the link did help me, sorry it didn't work for you Spring. :(
@chasersgaming: Well, I had a pretty big reply for you, including results of some looking I did to see how other Game Jams handle this question, but it all got lost when the submit ('Save') failed and the whole of my comment disappeared into the ether. So you'll have to get the brief version.
I looked at Lundum Dare, Global Game Jam, Weekly Game Jam and Once A Month Game Jam, and they're all pretty open about what they allow. Lundum Dare is quite explicit about allowing you to start with any 'base code' you want. The others are similar. The general attitude seems to be bring what tools you want to the table, the challenge is creating something new. OGAM sums it up nicely with the line: 'Starting a game is easy. Finishing a game is hard.'
There's so much that goes into making a game, it really does seem pointless to ask folks to do everything 'from scratch' for a jam. All you're going to see then is how quickly people can type. TBH, the challenge of making a game goes so far beyond writing code, if you focus on that element, you won't even be getting to what are the interesting questions (eg. gameplay, story, level design, etc, ie. making it fun!).
All that said, I think I'll start fish around for another idea to use for the Game Jam.
I am pretty jazzed to make Medusa Must Die! and figured the Jam would be a good excuse to finally do it, but given the prototype work, the code I'd like to re-use, not to mention the years spent day dreaming about the game design for it, I'd have a really hard time saying the game was something new made solely within the timeframe of the Game Jame.
Ok, two more questions before the Jam officially gets underway.
First, I know we have already discussed engine and framework code and deicided that was ok to use for Jam entries. What about re-using and/or re-purposing code more generally?
I have written a fair bit of procedural world generation code for various other projects and was hoping to borrow liberally from it for my Jam game. The code will have to be considerably re-worked and tuned to fit my Jam game but it will be a starting point, so I figured I should ask if that was ok with the community?
I know the simple answer would be to chose an open license and publish the code before the jam, but I have a myriad reasons for not doing that, not the least of which is that it's actually just snippets from several experimental and incomplete projects, so not really anything that's comprehensible to anyone but the author much less suitable for publication.
Anyways, I'm sure I'm not alone in this question. There's a lot of 'not quite engine' code that every game requires (state machine, movement/jump physics, etc) and it seems pointless to ask folks to re-code it all from scratch for a Jam that's about showing off OGA assets not coding wizardry. On the other hand, starting from somewhere is always better than starting from nowhere and so could be considered an unfair advantage in the competition. I guess the devil is in deciding where to draw the line between allowing sensible code re-use and allowing outright re-skins of existing games and asset-flip type stuff.
Secondly, the game I'm hoping to make for the Jam is called 'Medusa Must Die!' and I have to confess I did make a (very) simple prototype for it many moons ago. This was during a period when I was protyping several different game ideas trying to decide on which I should pursue for my next big project. I decided on a different game and shelved the Medusa Must Die! prototype having never gotten any further than extending surt's original ikaros set a bit and working up a simple 'player movement' demo where the player could walk left and right and jump about. In the run up this year's Jam, I've done more work on the sprite set and released it to OGA. As far as the code goes, I plan to start a fresh project and not even look at the work in my prototype. Still, I wanted to ask if this was ok with everyone? I know enough about the protype to know it will not be useful in creating the actual game. Still, I suppose just having made a prototype once upon a time could be considered a headstart on making the game and I am happy to pursue another idea if folks think this would constitute an unfair advantage for me in the competition.
Saturday, June 30, 2018 - 05:56
@VinnNo.0: Yeah, no worries at all about the violence you describe. Although it helps that the creatures being so abused are adorable. Well, actually I don't know, maybe that makes it worse. :)
Either way, no worries, although as MedicineStorm suggests a small warning might be nice. Last year, I did play all the Jam entries with my two young boys, and was planning to do the same this year.
On a technical note, pretty sure what you are describing would be called 'fantasy violence'. I see that label on ESRB ratings a fair bit. Seems to be applied to games that have violence in a cartoon or otherwise abstract setting.
Saturday, June 30, 2018 - 05:43
@Cougarmint: Yay! First, I second this idea! Secondly, although a righty myself, I have worked really hard to make sure the player characters in my current project are fully ambidextrous. It really is quite a bit of extra work in terms of animations and coding and design and things. Not too much, but just enough that I've several times found myself seriously considering throwing in the towel on the idea and just falling back to ye old 'righties only' approach. It's especially disheartening when I've gone looking for an example of how to approach something (a UI or controller issue, etc) and realized that even the pros rarely, if ever, bother with lefty support. So anyways, it's nice to hear I'm not the only one whose noticed the lack of lefty love in the video game world. Feel a bit vindicated for sticking it out despite all the extra time it's cost me.
Saturday, June 30, 2018 - 05:30
Looks like we got some good stuff brewing for the competition!
I'll be trying to bring to life my ikaros inspired game from many years back. This one's been stuck in my head for years, constantly set aside to work on more 'urgent' things, well no more! I've developed the idea a little more in my head, but the core pitch hasn't changed:
The game is 'Medusa Must Die!'
You play successive generations of a family cursed to battle Medusa through enternity. Every life is another generation of the family. Every generation the world gets bigger, Medusa gets tougher and new weapons/items are introduced. You have one task, find and kill Medusa. If you succeed, all your items, weapons, upgrades, etc. are handed down to the next generation, but if you fail and die, all your equipment is scattered and the next generation must start from scratch, forced to scour the world in search of your lost gear. Gameplay is metrodavania with procedural world creation. Upgrades include a succession of Ikarus wings granting high jump, hover, double jump, etc. As well as other Greek mythology-based items and weapons. Theme is the endless cycle of violence and revenge as the story alternates between you seeking to avenge your forebearer's death at the hands of Medusa and a resurrected Medusa returning to wreak vengence upon you for your parent's sins.
Feels ambitious for a Jam title, but I think I have the tools in my chest to get it done.
Will be using my own game engine, C# with SDL and OpenGL. Mostly Gimp for art. sxfr and Audacity for sounds.
Good luck all! If last year's jam is any guide, players are in for a good time come July 30! :)
@DezrasDragons: That's a good one! But let's just keep any left hand prejudice out of it ;)
@Spring: I would say if the assets are such that it makes sense to split them up into separate submissions, then go ahead and do it that way. But don't split them up soley for the goal of padding out your 'assets used' numbers ;)
Ok, deliverying the promised updates!
Added some night time and jungle tiles.
I also had a go at adding some 'semi-solid' platform tiles.
These only appear in the night and jungle previews but I actually made ones for each of the environments.
I like how the semi-solid platform bits came out but I must admit they kind of kill that 'low tile count economy' I was talking about. Also not 100% convinced they mix perfectly with the very blocky grid look of the other tiles, but I made them so I figured they were worth including.
@Spring: I love it! 'Bedtime Breakout!'
I knew you'd find some inspiration on OGA. :)
@chasersgaming: I think the new rule about pre-written code sounds good. Honestly, unless you want to start getting hyper persrciptive about what tools people can use, I think this is the only approach that makes sense. I suppose this is going to sound cranky-old-man, but really, the idea that anything done with Unity or GameMaker was 'made from scratch' is preposterous.
Actually, what I was planning for the procedural world generation code would have fallen right within this rule. I have some code that would be useful for the game, but I wasn't going to start putting all the pieces together until the Jam started. The code wasn't written specifically for the game, so it's not like I was trying start coding for the game beforehand.
The prototype by constrast is more problematic as that literally was coding the game before the competition even if it didn't amount to much more than some basic platformering code.
@VinnNo.0: 9 jams! you've been busy! As far as code orginization goes, I definitely know the feeling when it comes to looking back at old projects. Fortunately, over the years I've learned to write pretty atomized code, although that's actually what's causing the issue here. I have a bunch of well generic code that would be great to reuse for the game. If it was more customized or tweaked out for my existing projects then it wouldn't be worth the trouble of re-using.
@all: Don't worry, Medusa Must Die! will live someday, just not for this Jam. At the end of the day, I think this is one of those things where just asking the question revealed the answer. 'So I got this game idea I've been developing for years, it'll use a bunch of code I already wrote, plus I made a prototype already, that'll be cool for this 4 week game jam, right?' Yeah, maybe not.
But it's no problem, I already have a bunch of other ideas for the Jam. Still narrowing the list down this morning, I'll post to the Hype thread when I decide on one.
@chasersgaming: Oh not disgruntled, sorry if I came off that way. I'd say I'm opinionated on the subject but not upset about it. A little bummed to be putting my Medusa Must Die! concept back on the shelf but I've actually already come up with several other ideas to go with instead. Going to sleep on it and pick one in the morning. And yes, the link did help me, sorry it didn't work for you Spring. :(
@Spring:
https://opengameart.org/popular
click until you find something that inspires you.
@chasersgaming: Well, I had a pretty big reply for you, including results of some looking I did to see how other Game Jams handle this question, but it all got lost when the submit ('Save') failed and the whole of my comment disappeared into the ether. So you'll have to get the brief version.
I looked at Lundum Dare, Global Game Jam, Weekly Game Jam and Once A Month Game Jam, and they're all pretty open about what they allow. Lundum Dare is quite explicit about allowing you to start with any 'base code' you want. The others are similar. The general attitude seems to be bring what tools you want to the table, the challenge is creating something new. OGAM sums it up nicely with the line: 'Starting a game is easy. Finishing a game is hard.'
There's so much that goes into making a game, it really does seem pointless to ask folks to do everything 'from scratch' for a jam. All you're going to see then is how quickly people can type. TBH, the challenge of making a game goes so far beyond writing code, if you focus on that element, you won't even be getting to what are the interesting questions (eg. gameplay, story, level design, etc, ie. making it fun!).
All that said, I think I'll start fish around for another idea to use for the Game Jam.
I am pretty jazzed to make Medusa Must Die! and figured the Jam would be a good excuse to finally do it, but given the prototype work, the code I'd like to re-use, not to mention the years spent day dreaming about the game design for it, I'd have a really hard time saying the game was something new made solely within the timeframe of the Game Jame.
@Spring: Looks like I'll be taking my own adivce here (clicks on https://opengameart.org/popular)...
Ok, two more questions before the Jam officially gets underway.
First, I know we have already discussed engine and framework code and deicided that was ok to use for Jam entries. What about re-using and/or re-purposing code more generally?
I have written a fair bit of procedural world generation code for various other projects and was hoping to borrow liberally from it for my Jam game.
The code will have to be considerably re-worked and tuned to fit my Jam game but it will be a starting point, so I figured I should ask if that was ok with the community?
I know the simple answer would be to chose an open license and publish the code before the jam, but I have a myriad reasons for not doing that, not the least of which is that it's actually just snippets from several experimental and incomplete projects, so not really anything that's comprehensible to anyone but the author much less suitable for publication.
Anyways, I'm sure I'm not alone in this question. There's a lot of 'not quite engine' code that every game requires (state machine, movement/jump physics, etc) and it seems pointless to ask folks to re-code it all from scratch for a Jam that's about showing off OGA assets not coding wizardry.
On the other hand, starting from somewhere is always better than starting from nowhere and so could be considered an unfair advantage in the competition.
I guess the devil is in deciding where to draw the line between allowing sensible code re-use and allowing outright re-skins of existing games and asset-flip type stuff.
Secondly, the game I'm hoping to make for the Jam is called 'Medusa Must Die!' and I have to confess I did make a (very) simple prototype for it many moons ago. This was during a period when I was protyping several different game ideas trying to decide on which I should pursue for my next big project. I decided on a different game and shelved the Medusa Must Die! prototype having never gotten any further than extending surt's original ikaros set a bit and working up a simple 'player movement' demo where the player could walk left and right and jump about.
In the run up this year's Jam, I've done more work on the sprite set and released it to OGA. As far as the code goes, I plan to start a fresh project and not even look at the work in my prototype.
Still, I wanted to ask if this was ok with everyone?
I know enough about the protype to know it will not be useful in creating the actual game. Still, I suppose just having made a prototype once upon a time could be considered a headstart on making the game and I am happy to pursue another idea if folks think this would constitute an unfair advantage for me in the competition.
@VinnNo.0: Yeah, no worries at all about the violence you describe. Although it helps that the creatures being so abused are adorable. Well, actually I don't know, maybe that makes it worse. :)
Either way, no worries, although as MedicineStorm suggests a small warning might be nice. Last year, I did play all the Jam entries with my two young boys, and was planning to do the same this year.
On a technical note, pretty sure what you are describing would be called 'fantasy violence'. I see that label on ESRB ratings a fair bit. Seems to be applied to games that have violence in a cartoon or otherwise abstract setting.
@Cougarmint: Yay! First, I second this idea! Secondly, although a righty myself, I have worked really hard to make sure the player characters in my current project are fully ambidextrous. It really is quite a bit of extra work in terms of animations and coding and design and things. Not too much, but just enough that I've several times found myself seriously considering throwing in the towel on the idea and just falling back to ye old 'righties only' approach. It's especially disheartening when I've gone looking for an example of how to approach something (a UI or controller issue, etc) and realized that even the pros rarely, if ever, bother with lefty support. So anyways, it's nice to hear I'm not the only one whose noticed the lack of lefty love in the video game world. Feel a bit vindicated for sticking it out despite all the extra time it's cost me.
Looks like we got some good stuff brewing for the competition!
I'll be trying to bring to life my ikaros inspired game from many years back. This one's been stuck in my head for years, constantly set aside to work on more 'urgent' things, well no more! I've developed the idea a little more in my head, but the core pitch hasn't changed:
The game is 'Medusa Must Die!'
You play successive generations of a family cursed to battle Medusa through enternity. Every life is another generation of the family. Every generation the world gets bigger, Medusa gets tougher and new weapons/items are introduced. You have one task, find and kill Medusa. If you succeed, all your items, weapons, upgrades, etc. are handed down to the next generation, but if you fail and die, all your equipment is scattered and the next generation must start from scratch, forced to scour the world in search of your lost gear.
Gameplay is metrodavania with procedural world creation. Upgrades include a succession of Ikarus wings granting high jump, hover, double jump, etc. As well as other Greek mythology-based items and weapons.
Theme is the endless cycle of violence and revenge as the story alternates between you seeking to avenge your forebearer's death at the hands of Medusa and a resurrected Medusa returning to wreak vengence upon you for your parent's sins.
Feels ambitious for a Jam title, but I think I have the tools in my chest to get it done.
Will be using my own game engine, C# with SDL and OpenGL. Mostly Gimp for art. sxfr and Audacity for sounds.
Good luck all! If last year's jam is any guide, players are in for a good time come July 30! :)
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