id tech 4 asset discussion
I'm sure it's been brought up already is that id will soon release the source code to doom 3, with id tech 4 being the underlying technology. I'm not exactly sure how it ranks alongside other FOSS graphics libraries, I believe Ogre3d and Xreal are on par with idtech4. If not, then we might see it (or parts of it) become the standard for high-graphics FOSS engines.
Regardless, I think we might start discussing the need for open assets to utilize this potential. Namely things like 3d textures and models. I think good models are coming in, but I think 3d textures will be high demand soon.
The Dark Mod, a doom 3 mod in the style of the classic Theif games is having a discussion about id4 being released. With its release it could potentially become a standalone game; however, they are hindered by the partial use of doom 3's high quality textures. There are doubts that enough open high quality assets could be made to fill in the gaps.
Any thoughts on this?
I'm not sure that id are able to release the source code at all, due to software patents.
id Tech 4 relies on a technique called Carmack's Reverse for rendering stencilled shadow volumes. This technique is patented by Creative Labs in the US and so it cannot be used without a patent grant. Since id Software do not own the patent, they cannot release the code under the GPL:
Distributors under the GPL also grant a license for any of their patents practiced by the software, to practice those patents in GPL software. - https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/GPL#Terms_and_conditions
Ideally, Creative would allow the use of the technique in GPL'd software and the problem would be solved. Otherwise, there are three choices:
This is just another example of software patents being a hinderance rather than a help - there are other ways to implement stencilled shadow volumes, but they are either less efficient or less robust.
Stencil shadow rendering is outdated by now anyways and will be relatively quickly replaced by a more advanced (soft) shadowing technique.
Concerning how id tech 4 compares... well render-wise Orge etc might be better, but there is nothing that compares when it comes to integration and tools etc. With tech4 you can easily set up your own single and multiplayer player FPS as all the tools and in game scripting is already there.
The lack of something like that (with a half-way decent rendering engine) is why modders stay with commercial games.
What would be great though would be if we could get together and set up a completely free modding base, e.g. take the id tech4, fix the bugs, improve the renderer, but most importantly make a small set of art assets you can base a mod on.
Most importantly this would be some standard textures and map-models and a high quality set of human animations and a good rig for it. I think texture wise we are already set up pretty well with some stuff from OGA and things that can be taken from Xonotic etc. There also is a free set of animations in Xonotic and RedEclipse which isn't great but could probably serve as a base.
So I am not talking about making a game like OpenArena... but a nice set of stuff you can use for a mod.
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http://freegamedev.net
started a thread over at FGD:
http://forum.freegamedev.net/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1813
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http://freegamedev.net
> Distributors under the GPL also grant a license for any of their patents practiced by the software, to practice those patents in GPL software. - https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/GPL#Terms_and_conditions
Only refers to patents you (the Distributor) own - then you have to grant them. To prevent situations like: "here get this source for free." some later time: "erm, I meant pay patent fees".
Besides anyone paying them for those patents? Do they defend their patent?
> Besides anyone paying them for those patents? Do they defend their patent?
id Software for one. It's one of the reasons why Doom 3 uses Creative's audio technology:
http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2004/07/4048.ars
Various updates and planning over at the FGD post linked above.
I feel the forums are more active over there, so that is why I would like to "channel" the discussion to there.... but if there is more interest over here feel free to comment here.
P.S.: once (and if) this gets really going a sub forum on OGA would be probably nice.
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New repository here:
http://sourceforge.net/p/artbaseidtech4/
and very nice discussion also over at Doom3World:
http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=24832&p=233002#p23...
sorry the above was me :)
Progress:
Got a nice full menu gui and started to populate the repository with folders and license readmes etc.
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I don't know.
If I did one, i'd make it photorealistic because Doom3 was a slow-paced game, and you gotta have the skinpores to make gloss and normals all worth it. Blender's sculpting and baking is finally maturing up so hopefully quick rough stuff in that style should be easy as pants.
I'd be more excited about the Quake4 source someday TBH. That game had a lot of good things going for it in MP (player model push system, napalm, definition flexibility), but spoiled by pro gamer demand (like killing lighting).
Its addition to the Steam store last month is something of an omen, since Carmack always wants to have datasets easily available.
If I remmember correctly:
GPL only requires the source to be there. With Carmecks reverse the shading code is already fully known, and its sort of public. ID already paid for it.
There is no legal issues until somebody actually create a fork of the engine, and sells a game on the top of it, without any consultation.
"I'm tired of trying to do something worthwhile for the human race, they simply don't want to change!"
-Doktor/Professor Dvorák
The source!
https://github.com/TTimo/doom3.gpl