I, for one, am strongly for this. I understand that this is open source and I understand that we have people that visit just for open source content. But another thing we all have in common is video games and other media. Not all video games and videos are open source. The website can be a place where people help with open source projects as well provide open source content. But I see nothing wrong in also using the website to provide a place for help from closed projects as well. Some people here are strictly open source fan boys and some are still learning and improving their art that they post on the website. But we also have people that are more skilled and are actually into closed projects as well. 

 I am into helping open source but also like to utilize the chance to do something closed source because it keeps me focused, teaches me how to work with in people that have been selected and also gives me a chance to build my portfolio. It is quite possible to do the job offers in a separate forum, though this is not what the website is "for", it allows people who enjoy both open and closed and gives them a choice. It would probably out of the question to make closed projects be on this website because it would contradict the websites purpose, but it will not hurt to use the forums as a gateway to inform people who love open source, thats it possible to do a closed source project as well.

 My conclusion is, advertisement and information of closed source project are absolutely fine. Yet using the website to host anything closed source related would be a contradiction.

Does this site really need to become yet another place where headhunters can paste job announcements for free? These people have nothing to do with games or art and will never contribute back anything of value. The threads they create become useless the moment they hit the submit button because they have no intention to ever return to read replies, much less to post ones. If you OK the practice, they'll only come back to paste new announcements.

And who wants to search for a job here anyway? If you want a job, go to a real job search site or, gasp, personally contact the local employer of your liking. The real job sites offer a far better interface for, among other things, finding jobs that are actually in the same continent. You can also do educated comparisons more easily to reduce your likelyhood to land into a crappy position and get exploited.

I don't think there's any need for such a forum here. Moderating and ignoring it will just be waste of everyone's time. And why do the free projects in the Show off your project! forum need to use art from OGA to be eligible to promote themselves but the headhunters can post without any requirements? How about making *them* post their game art to OGA before they can spam the forums? :-P

Well another thing is this is OGa website I am pretty sure we arent going to get huge companies to post on our forums yet. Post for help on a closed source project might actually be from active members of the OGA community. Also, You dont have to allow anyone to advertise on the forums, you can make them go through an application that will be submitted by bart. Where bart will be the one that will post it up on the forums.

I understand that them not posting their art bothers you, But they are getting it down because they are a closed source project and are probably asking people who can get it done fast to do what they need, instead of here where they try and search for content they need. Maybe they love the art that someone did here and want to post for their help or ask if anyone can do it like them.

Its also wrong for you to get mad at them for no posting anything back or say they arent going to give anything back because we have people now that make accounts on this website and just download content and they haven't posted up anything themselves.

Headhunters and Jobagents who just want to increase their pool: No

Open Projects, Real Startups, Indies and friendly Companies with homepage and real offers: Yes

I agree to amuzen about those virtual proposals but agree to Brandon75689 for real nice proposals. Whatever you choose it may be moderation overhead involved. As a personal experience: A job a headhunter can find, you can find yourself.

However, this might serve to draw away people who would potentially contribute to OGA or specific open-source games. I'm not saying this would necessary happen, or that it would happen on a noticeable scale, but it's something to think about.

Personally, I don't see the need for a commercial jobs forum. It just doesn't fit in with the mission of OGA, and there are numerous other places one can post/acquire commercial jobs.

I am hardly worried about the game company that wants to do the closed source project, I am more worried about allowing closed source projects at all. In my eyes, I find it find to allow on a couple be able to post on the forums after agreement with Bart. I see that people may get disappointed about this as well. But I have seen people do a closed source project and right when the project was done they allowed everyone to use the content they used in the game. The only reason they had it closed source is because they wanted to know who does what, what person is good at that, and make sure no one messes with the project until it is done.

I know some people are not fond of closed source projects and act like they are evil. But I think it is perfectly fine for selected friendly closed source projects post here to gain attention away from OGA. It would only be wrong and against the website if we allowed closed projects to take over on the website. But I think allowing a few advertisements in the forums to show other people what they can do outside of OGA is fine.

Just like Bart said, " I don't have any major problems with this specifically (unless it's Zynga)".He is okay with it, but not okay with certain companies. Which , like i said, should be his duty to choose what goes into the forum just like the content he has been showing with donations. Also, if someone here that is a very active and good member of OGA wants to make a closed source project, I think it would be correct to support him. Doing something open source is a choice not a religion. We shouldn't host closed source games here but I think we can allow a few with certain rules.

While i'm not totally for or against allowing People to place job offers on the forums. I see allowing it as helping our blossoming community of artists and programmers find work they enjoy and a way to support themselves. On the other hand I can see the potential backlash in the community because we have 'sold out' despite the fact that we have always commissioned art from artists ourselves.

So my question is does this help promote the goals of OGA and setup a kind of environment that encourages that?

I see these goals as:

• Encouraging artists and programmers to contribute to and use FOSS & Free Culture.
• Be a Repository for the products of this union of artists and programmers.

My answer for the short term is no. It does not help those goals.

My answer for the long term is I do not know.

If we do allow it need some rules.

1. Only in the Job Offers Forum (note: i don't call it proprietary or closed source offers because like us we make deals with artists under terms we both find favorable.)
2. Must Be First Party Offer i.e. someone from the hiring company. Never A Third Party Offer.
3. Companies and Individuals will be banned from Job Offers Forum if they Fail to comply with rules. Continued Abuse or Disregard of the rules will result in being permanently banned from the site.

"I work as s contract recruiter for two high profile game companies.  If you are looking for a programming opportunity in the SF Bay Area (...)"

Isn't Zynga located in SF? :p

Personally I agree with Brandon and others; it's fine if moderated to serious offers, especially indie teams. OGA always had the position of not excluding commercial or closed-source development as long as they abide by the licenses (and certainly not if they contribute in return). That said, I don't want OGA to turn into a closed-source closed-content job-hunting board either.

I agree I dont want this website to turn into a closed-source closed-content job-hunting board. But I feel allowing indie companies that are just starting off can be mutual for us. They chose are website for a reason. We will still host open source content and free help for people with  FOSS software, but I feel having a couple job advertisements in a forum that you don't have to go to is not going to really harm anyone.

Think of it as a second choice members of the OGA community can take if they are interested. I mean you can make it where if game companies want to advertise on our forums you can make a rule where if a game company (that fits the criteria) wants to advertise on our forums they have to upload some free licensed content. So the community gets something and the game company does as well.

If someone from a big game company is browsing the gallery, sees a particular work, and decides they'd like to solicite that particular artist for an employment opportunity, then that's great.  I think that's a very worthwhile use of the site -- connecting those who need art with those who provide art.  However, a forum post of "Big Gaming Inc.™ has open positions for the following..." amounts to nothing more than a classified ad.  For me personally, if someone were browsing the Glest boards (which I moderate) and was impressed with one of our artists enough to offer a job, then I'd be quite happy for them, but if somebody from (e.g.) Blizzard posts a thread about open positions for Warcraft 4, I'll lock it without a second thought.  They can go to Craigslist for that.  FOSS projects like 0AD and Avaneya have been allowed to self-promote in Off-Topic, though.

I prefer direct, personal job offers over "ads". It's probably enough if we make sure that reaching users (and browsing their art) is simple, assuming they want to.

I say no to ads, if someone wants to contact me the will send me a pm or email.

But if a indi need art, well, for that is the open comission i think =P.

Wow, wow and wow.

There is a fourth kind of person who also comes to OGA. To see new art and kinda find games. I usually come to OGA in hopes of seeing some interesting art and hopefully a link back to the project. Sometimes I get lucky and sometimes I'm not but that's ok. Whatever I can get I am happy with.

<rant>

The problem I have seen is that there no dedicated sites which is to upto date. See for e.g. this post on freegamer recently http://freegamer.blogspot.com/2011/01/how-to-advertise-your-foss-game.html

For me I have looked at all the sites and do not really meaure up when it comes to just game listing. Some have outdated content. Some have content but is scattered, some have content which is categorized but no basic filters where one could filter though.

In the end lot of time and duplication of effort happens.This is frustrating both for developers and users. If I knew of more good FOSS games, the more I can play and perhaps even help them by finding bugs and whatever little way I can. Ideas whatever.

I do hope to see OGA perhaps having a wiki at some point to fill this gap as well. Have some kind of mediawiki installation and let people put up stuff there as well.

</rant>

Now if there are going to be commercial corner there is possibility that FOSS art (sooner or later) become a side-dish and not the main course as they are today.

If they do give some art assets under a free license then its altogether a different game altogether.

I would say it's OK, as long as you don't use your purpose as a web site. Open Game art is for distributing art for open games. So if there are many headhunters in a forum, it may get less clear what this website is about. I would say: OK, as long as the art license is compatible with OGA.

I think having a small section wouldn't be a problem, especially if it were something akin to what Pixelation has.  Though it would probably be wise to assess how it's developed after a few months.  Something tells me that OGA is unlikely to become a haven for corporate headhunters, but it's hard to tell.